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Where are the dead?

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Re: Where are the dead?

Post  Admin on Thu 18 Jun 2009, 9:48 pm

A great opportunity to dig into the bible and not just take what others say.

My understanding of this post. I could well be wrong but take note please readers of the bottom line.
Hopefully I can break this down what I gather from this.
In Luke 16 Jesus was speaking to his disciples in a parable then concerning A certain rich man ...and Lazarus
This was to me typifying what would happen.
There are those in Abrahams bossom classed as paradise with God and those in Hades waiting for judgement but we are reading here of how people will not listen even if an angel from heaven told them they had the prophets who they took no notice of.

Jumping to the question of Hades, my understanding because the interpretation of Hades and Hell is lumped together...In my humble opinion I am no theologian, I read as a place maybe of chambers reserved for judgement another reserved destined for Hades Hell lake of fire as we understand.
In John 11:43 we have Jesus 3 years before he took the keys of Hades (hell) calling Lazarus to come forth from the dead it was not Christ Jesus' time to set the captive free when He went to the cross and the grave but another miracle of many where he showed He was from the Father.
We need to take hold that this Lazarus did not ressurect as Jesus did!!.. there is a great difference, Lazarus .....Still with the life he had before and mortality, not as Jesus who is now Lord of all and life eternal.

John at the Isle of Patmos wrote in Rev 1:verses 17 and 18 note death and hades..
And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as one dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying, Fear not; I am the first and the last, and the Living one; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.
I cannot find the scripture where it is said when Jesus took the keys of Hades and rose the graves were opened. I got it Smile
Mathew 27:52 and 53
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

This is a huge bible study but trying to condence.
Then we have the rapture this is a contraversial subject but my opinion of my reading of the bible.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

"Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have not hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."
1 Corinthians 15:51-53
"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed- in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality."

BOTTOM LINE
great is the mystery of God
We who are remaining really need to get to grip and be ready.
Jesus have said I come as a thief in the night.

It is not ours to ponder on what iffs or what happened or happening but OURS to be READY to be doing his will as best we are able.
That we may receive well done faithful servant and looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith.

We may fall down but let us not use thisas an excuse,.. for our God knows whether to appease our appitite of things of the flesh He knows our battles also and is great in mercy and grace.

Be encouraged our God is so merciful to us his measure is beyond our understanding.
Live today as if it is your last. Confess your failings and ask for his help.

May his grace sustain you as you strive to do His will in our lives.
Elaine.
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Where are the dead?

Post  Admin on Wed 17 Jun 2009, 10:55 pm

Where are the dead?

aka A guided tour of hell.

Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the
Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and
your
Father, and My God and your God.' "

John 20:17

Jesus said this after He had been in the tomb for 3 days.

So . . . where do the dead go? I thought the dead went to heaven! Well,
they do but..

Let's work our way through some of what the Bible actually says concerning
the realm of the dead. Most have drawn their conclusions based on tradition
and various sources rather than scripture leaving vast gaps in their
understanding.

Let's look in on one of Jesus' conversations.

Now the Pharisees,

who were lovers of money, were listening to all these things and were
scoffing at Him.

Luke 16:14

So, Jesus was being ridiculed by a group of Pharisees and they got more than
they bargained for.

Jesus gave them a guided tour of hell. Want to tag along? I'll reproduce
the text in it's entirety then we'll digest it below.

The rich man and Lazarus

Luke 16

19. "Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine
linen, joyously living in splendor every day.

20. "And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with
sores,

21. and longing to be fed with the {crumbs} which were falling from the
rich man's table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores.

22. "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's
bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.

23. "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham
far away and Lazarus in his bosom.

24. "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and
send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off
my
tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'

25. "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received
your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being
comforted
here, and you are in agony.

26. 'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm
fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be
able, and
{that} none may cross over from there to us.'

27. "And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my
father's house--

28. for I have five brothers--in order that he may warn them, so that they
will not also come to this place of torment.'

29. "But Abraham *said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear
them.'

30. "But he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from
the dead, they will repent!'

31. "But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets,
they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.' "

Ok. Let's see two guys died and went to Hades vs. 23. ("Hell" in KJV.) So,
is this hell? Well, kinda. It is not the eternal lake of Fire. That is
described
in Matthew 25:31-46 and Revelation 20:11-15. It is, however, a description
of the immediate state of all people before the great White throne judgment
occurs. Here's the rub. The KJV for the most part just lumped words up
together and called them all hell. Today we have to back track a little to
untangle
it.

For one thing they both went to Hades (Hell KJV) but there is obviously a
good side and a very bad side of Hades. Note there is also flame and
torment
on the bad side. But it is not the same thing as the "lake of Fire."

Several questions are immediately answered that we often ask.

1) Are the dead conscious? Sure looks like it doesn't it?

2) Will we know each other in "heaven?" This is called "Abraham's bosom."
Does this qualify as heaven? Well, Kinda. (Sounds like a broken record
doesn't
it). After the judgment described in Matthew 25 and in Revelation 20, the
situation will change for the saved as well as the unsaved. We'll look at
that
in a moment.

Be that as it may be, they knew each other didn't they? Lazarus never
speaks, but Abraham certainly does. They speak back and forth. Knowledge is
increased
rather than diminished. Logically, if we think about it a moment, we would
expect knowledge of all things to be increased not diminished. Some people
reason that they couldn't be happy if they were aware of loved ones that
didn't "make it." Whatever conclusion we may reach following that line of
reasoning,
Jesus makes it clear that our intellect (and our recollection) is intact.

3) What will we be thinking? First, the rich man looks for a way out.
When that fails, he wishes desperately to warn his loved ones that he now
knows
won't make it either. Christianity is no joke! Faith really is a matter life or death.

Jesus means it when He says that "For the gate is small and the way is
narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matthew 7:14
Have you
ever been to a funeral where, after hearing the sermon, you wanted to look
in the casket to be sure the deceased was the same fellow you used to know?
We do a grave injustice when we allow preachers to preach "everyone" into
heaven!
People, even some of our friends, really do go to hell.

My guess is that even on the paradise side folks would like to warn their
loved ones also. But the text really doesn't address what Lazarus is
thinking about or doing.

One thing is very clear.

If someone dies after a long sickness, while screaming in pain, they are not
necessarily "better off!" Unless they are "right" with God, their problems
are just beginning.

Let's move on.

As noted under the title, John 20:17 Jesus tells Mary that He has not
ascended to the father. Since this after He rose from the grave it
startles some.
So, where did He go?

Peter answers this question for us, "He seeing this before spake of the
resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell" Acts 2:31 (KJV)
The
NASV says Hades.

So, Jesus went to Hades, but as noted above, there are two parts of Hades
identified by Scripture. Did He go to the torments side (Luke 16:23)? No!
Remember
what He promised the thief on the cross?

""Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise." Luke 23:43

Since Peter says Jesus went to Hades it would appear that Paradise is
another name for Abraham's bosom. i.e. the favorable side of Hades.

The "end" of Hades and the beginning of eternity

If you struggle with the next revelation from scripture, don't feel alone!
I am not sure any of us fully grasps the implications of it. What God has
told
us is . . .

Revelation 20

11. Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose
presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.

12. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the
throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is {the
book} of
life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the
books, according to their deeds.

13. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades
gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one {of
them}
according to their deeds.

14. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the
second death, the lake of fire.

15. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was
thrown into the lake of fire.

The realm of Hades will cease to exist at the judgment. Some questions are
still to be struggled with. Some ask, "What is the purpose of the judgment
if the rich man (and others) already seem to be judged?" That is a
legitimate question isn't it?

Try this one on. We do the same thing. When the outcome is reasonably
certain in a capital case. we hold our criminals without bail. Is the judgment
for those without Jesus, reasonably certain? Will it be fair? Is it a
capital case (life or death hangs in the balance)?

One final thought. In Revelation 21 it goes on into heaven as we generally
conceive of it. The pearly gates, streets of gold etc. These all follow
the
judgment.

Where are the dead according to the scripture?

Awaiting the trial of their destiny in Hades. Neither they nor we can
afford to be ill prepared for that date with destiny!

Yours in Christ

Jerry Blount

Minister for

Pleasant Valley church of Christ

WWW.letJesusleadus. org
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